Open Discussion: Dark Powers/Checks

[Ouroboros]

The above system has redeeming yourself by one DP rank go hand in hand with all it's properties being removed. You can't go to DP 4, get a shitload of bonuses and maluses and then derank and retain them.

[Maiyannah]

Absolutely. Concern addressed.

A thought I have is of players just lingering on the 4 threshhold by trying to go back and forth, but I think we can just watch out for this at the DM level since we are requiring all dark powers things to go through DM anyways in my proposed implementation. If they keep being intentionally wishy-washy to try to avoid losing the character, the DM can address it.

[Ouroboros]

The easy solution to this is similar to my homebrew rule of DP checks setting you at a minimum tier of evil to provoke another check. If a character reaches DP 4, redeems themselves down to DP 2, to even trigger a new Dark Powers check they would need to surpass their prior most evil act. Theoretically if someone rolls the perfect sequence they could MAYBE jump up to DP 4, then down to DP 0, then back up to 4, but it realistically serves no purpose as their benefits are taken away if they drop down a tier.

If the concern is about someone reaching the tier just before kicking off the doomsday clock, make it so that if they de-rank in Dark Powers checks their doomsday clock kicks off one tier earlier. So if someone goes up to DP 5, kicks off the doomsday clock, drops down to 4 and then goes back up to 5, make their doomsday clock now starts kicking off at DP 4, so they'd have to derank twice to get out of the danger zone. Eventually if someone keeps on playing chicken with the Dark Powers, they'll kick off a doomsday clock at DP 1 except it won't convert them to a Darklord, it'll just turn them into some sort of shitty Mist Wraith.

[Maiyannah]

I'm inclined to say, once the doomsday clock is going, they have redeem themselves entirely, to stop it (ie, lose all their dark powers.)

Not impossible - but very very difficult.

[Ouroboros]

That would most likely encourage players to double down and just shoot for Darklord, since if you de-rank and don't make it to DP 0 in time all of your hard work would result in your character being taken away and getting a really, really shitty ending from a narrative perspective. In turn, it also punishes players for choosing the harder path of good; being any sort of good alignment is already 'sub-optimal' in D&D compared to being morally flexible. Attempting to be good aligned in Ravenloft is basically hard mode. Attempting to redeem yourself from DP 5 with a countdown over your head threatening to turn you into some form of doomed loser sounds like hard mode with someone kicking you in the groin over and over.

Which is to say, I think that kind of design will throw redemption entirely off the table, because nobody would ever consider it.

[Maiyannah]

Right, but my thought is that if it is that much pressure on the player, they're going to want to avoid it. Although I guess the jury's still out on whether that would actually do that, or if they'd just double down, as you say.

[wilkins1952]

I think that any timer should only start at DP4 Basically. Offer them an alternative ending until that point the Boons/Curses are still pretty mild. Still I think the option of them being able to recover from DP levels is a good idea and could make for some interesting storylines.

[Maiyannah]

What do we think of the idea that you can claw back the dark powers checks to not have the maluses and stuff, but if you commit another heinuous act, it puts you right back where you were?

[wilkins1952]

Also a good option would be fairly easy to keep a forum record of these as well and just have DMs check that before giving out DP rolls. Given that most DPs come with some form of cosmetic change as well. Would be easy for a DM to just quickly check the forms for PC XYZ before they make them roll

[Maiyannah]

I prefer to track it in game. If we have a PC Data Object type thing, we can have it stored on that, and then our own examine thing that can include that in the info.